Is It Possible To Have An Intelligent Debate About How We Can Celebrate The Holidays In A Non-Denominational Way?
Every time the holidays come around, we come across on our site a debate complaining about Christmas. In particular, "CHRISTmas".
In his Politics & Current Events posting School Board Bans CHRISTmas decorations on school buses, our member Don complains about a recent decision by his local school board for banning "CHRISTmas" decorations on buses:
What is going on in this country, are we allowing people to control, what our forfathers, fought and died for so we could still have a country founded on "CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES" As a Canadian, I feel that our rights are being taken away because other ethnic groups want it that way. I would like that anyone who feel that this board has gone "TOO" far to write them letting them know that they need to take back their recommendations, and tell the people who are raising the stick to buy and use their buses privately. This is a free country and we have rights and if they "DO NOT LIKE " how it has been run for decades to leave it.
Now, there are obviously a few sentiments in this posting that runs against the anti-oppression framework that is a part of our site's community guidelines. (In particular, racism & religion oppression.)
Let us be clear: we do not support or even encourage these sort of opinions, especially the kind that lay blame upon "ethnic groups" as well as assert the assumption that our country has a responsibility to institutionalize "Christian principles" even though our government clearly supports pluralism and cultural diversity.
We are interested then, in unpacking the frustration that Don has in his forum posting. From the "CHRISTmas", it's clear that he is concerned about the holidays becoming non-denominational with the Tri-Board Student Transportation Services' decision to ban Christmas decorations on their school buses. (The Services' official reason for the ban is reportedly around safety issues.)
Sure, you could argue this is a rather "hum bug" decision. If we can't have Santa Claus decorations, why should we even have inclusive holidays at this time of the year? Why don't everyone enjoy their own darn holidays and keep their Grinch noses out of "ours"?
Clearly, this is a sore spot. As the holidays become increasingly non-denominational, how do we still encourage our communities & the next generation to still honor the spirit of good will, giving & helping others?
(Or is this debate moot, since we're really just celebrating now an annual holiday-themed mass consumption month?)
Tags: ", , , , Christmas, Holidays, Kingston, , , Christmas, Holidays, Kingston, Services, , Christmas, Holidays, Kingston, Services, Services, Services", Student, Transportation, Tri-Board, Tri-Board Student Transportation Services, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Susan Keeping on
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The thing is in the vast majority of cases it's not any group that is asking for this, it's organizations going overboard who think they are trying to make everyone happy; in reality they offend almost everyone. I can actually understand how it could be a safety issue and I don't remember seeing Christmas decorations on buses when I was growing up.
Regardless, this does not infringe on anyone's right to enjoy Christmas the way they wish to celebrate it.
I'm so tired of this being used as an excuse to attack immigrants.
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Permalink Reply by Lynda Shoniker Azzopardi on -
First of all, those of us who are Christian, should feel free to decorate their homes (not buses) anyway they feel like it. I have no issue with those people who are non-Christian, but let me and those like me, celebrate Christmas in the way we choose.
I am not saying that Immigrants and non-Christians should not keep their traditions, but there is a time and a place for everything and feeling offended because Christians celebrate Christmas, well, I'm sorry, but they chose to adopt Canada as their new home, so they should try to see the Christian side of things too. After all, Christmas is based on the teachings of Christ! Merry Christmas everyone!
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Permalink Reply by Kathy Dowsett on -
I was raised with Merry Christmas!!! I respect other people's religion and their views about the Christmas holiday. I wish everyone a "Merry Christmas", whether they are Canadian or not. Most of the time I get back a "Merry Christmas as well!!!
However we should not have to forgo our traditions which have been a part of the Canadian way for decades.
Kathy Dowsett
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Permalink Reply by goldie080 on -
I don't see any problem since each belief system has their celebrations. Even Kwanza is part of the landscape too. Have a look at the Holy Land, Jerusalem, where annual celebrations take place, all with tolerance for the different faiths. We're not objecting to the Chinese New Year, are we? It's simply their belief and I doubt anyone is complaining. Pehaps the only complaint I can think of would be to celebrate and in the midst of it all to overlook the original reason for which it was created.
Just my thoughts.
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Permalink Reply by Karen MacNeil on -
I am a Canadian who was raised in a Christian household, and at the same time I was raised in a democracy that adheres to the separation of church and state. Given that all public schools are funded by the government I believe it is their duty to remain a religion neutral zone. When I was a child there was a family of Jeovah Witness's in our school and now that I think back it was probably very uncomfortable for them to have to participate in singing songs about Jesus. If we can't celebrate the holidays of all religions then it is not fair to only celebrate a christian one. And what's with all the anger from Christians over this issue? Whatever happened to the peace on earth philosophy which is central to Christmas? I have no problem with people saying Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, if a person isn't religious maybe they feel it is hypocritical to use the term Christmas. Not to mention that all these angry comments seem to single out immigrants as being the reason for the change. Do people not realize that unless you're first nations you are definitley the descendant of immigrant as well. And lets not forget that many of the current Christmas traditions were once considered pagan rituals. In closing everyone have a very merry holiday of your choice!!
goldie080 said:I don't see any problem since each belief system has their celebrations. Even Kwanza is part of the landscape too. Have a look at the Holy Land, Jerusalem, where annual celebrations take place, all with tolerance for the different faiths. We're not objecting to the Chinese New Year, are we? It's simply their belief and I doubt anyone is complaining. Pehaps the only complaint I can think of would be to celebrate and in the midst of it all to overlook the original reason for which it was created.
Just my thoughts.
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Permalink Reply by ZoomerStaff on -
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Permalink Reply by Richard Sevigny on
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As some of the replies above suggest, having an intelligent - let alone respectful - conversation on this topic is close to impossible. On the one hand are institutions who are trying to be respectful and inclusive of all they serve. They are viewed with suspicion and derided at every opportunity by journalist who seem to love to stir the pot.
On the other hand are traditionalists who see every change as a personal affront and an attack on all they hold dear, often not realizing that their angry diatribes are exactly why institutions are trying desperately not to offend anyone.
Just for the record, my family celebrates Christmas. I may shake my head at some of what I see and don't feel threatened by the perceived silliness that seems to get trotted out every year. Christianity is doing just fine, though it seems it some of it's practitioners could use a dose of some of that humility that Jesus suggested we practice.
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Permalink Reply by goldie080 on
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My two cents here (again). I've already commented twice before and would like to say that I believe there is a great deal of confusion regarding intentions. What are we talking about? Is it expressions of Christian beliefs that take place in the home, or the school, or the local shopping plaza, or is it just the word Christmas? Little wonder that everyone has mixed feelings! A logical discussion will set the parameters first and then talk it over. This reminds me of the saying, "He got on his horse and galloped off in all directions."
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Permalink Reply by evelyn O Mahoney on -
iN Early America, Puritans banned the celebration of Christmas, as being Satanic.. and certainly the way it is, not Christian, in most cases. Christ was NOT born in December; It would be too cold in December for shepards to be in the fields. Early Christian fathers set December to celebrate because it was already a pagan holiday that people were celebrating. Organizations that wish to make money off Christmas do not want to offend any group that them might make money from.
We have a separtion of church and state so that no religion will control the government, and that is just. We have many ethnic groups here, not just Christians, and, we should not forget that. We can wish anyone a Merry Christmas that we want to, but the government should NOT make this a Christian government, after reading history seeing what a religion ran government really caused people to come here, in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by redo on -
It is completely reasonable to expect our governments to not spend tax dollars on a religious celebration but what other individuals, corporations or organizations do is entirely up to them.
It approaches a coercive suppression of civil rights when any person or group tries to dictate that anyone can not, or should not, celebrate Christmas (or any religious event) any way they wish.
Individuals who object to any aspect of the Christmas celebration have the option of not participating and/or not patronizing any commercial outlet they feel is 'pushing' some repugnant religious celebration.
I personally believe anyone who professes a belief in any religion that is dependant on a belief in the supernatural is rather foolish but, in this country, we have a constitutional right to be foolish. Even while rejecting the the faith based aspects of Christianity, I still celebrate Christmas and feel the attitudes and emotions associated with this season exemplify the very best in humanity (IE. Peace on earth and goodwill to all men.). It is this season when we find the time to be grateful for home, hearth and family.
These practises may have had their origins in a mystic religion but that does not lessen the value of such attitudes and emotions. Christmas, in the non-religious sense, is a day worthy of a celebration and I am personally happy to see only good things in the celebrations.
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Permalink Reply by Karen MacNeil on
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Would someone please explain specifically who "they" are??? These mysterious grinchs are trying to ruin Christmas, and quite obviously they must be immigrants because the undercurrent in many of the comments on this issue are thinly veiled racism. What part of SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE is so difficult to understand?????? If you want religious practices in your school than send your kids to private, or religious, schools not funded by tax payers! My Dad's 21 yr old brother died on the beach in Normandy so I could have the freedom to say HAPPY HOLIDAYS if I want to, and others have the right to say Merry Christmas. Why is this even an issue??? Government funded organizations and properties must remain neutral and not appear to support one religion over another(someone should explain this concept to Republicans and Conservatives). These elected officials represent more then just Christians, and I can just imagine the furrow if government decided to close parliament for the Haj or any other non christian religious celebration.
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Permalink Reply by CreekEnd_UK on -
The phrase Happy Holidays is like a red rag to a bull to me.
I'm a Lapsed Atheist and Born Again Virgin and see no reason why a Christian country should tread on egg shells when no other religion would change it's ceremony name so as not to 'offend' a minority.
Just my opinion.
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